Making an Impact through Fiction with Carol Van Den Hende

James Berges 00:01 

Do you ever think about how an acquired disability would affect your love life? Carol VandenHend, award -winning author of the Goodbye Orchid series, explores the intimate perspectives of an acquired disability. 

Mai Ling Chan 00:12 

Yeah, we often talk about people born with disabilities, but this episode dives into a really moving story of a man who gets into a relationship with someone he knew before his newly acquired disability and how he navigates this all with her. 

Mai Ling Chan 00:24 

And this includes his protection from shocking or burdening her, and she's so wonderfully flexible and compassionate, but she doesn't always see his silent struggles. It turns into a beautiful love story, and you know, James, when you love someone, it's never a burden. 

James Berges 00:38 

We'll explore the power of love and more, and the power of storytelling and sparking empathy in expanding your impact. 

Carol Van Den Hende 00:48 

I found that writing became a place of solace and I initially thought I was writing for myself until I joined a writing community and was able to really move the authors that I was working with. 

Mai Ling Chan 01:02 

Welcome to the Exceptional Leaders Podcast. I'm Mai Ling Chan, and together with James Burgess, we're getting you top tips and resources for building and scaling your disability -focused offerings straight from the forefront of disability advocacy and leadership. 

Mai Ling Chan 01:17 

I love James how you brought up the power storytelling because that's the core of my fourth book, which launches on Tuesday, February 20th. So for our listener, I invite you to grab your copy of Becoming an Exceptional API Leader, and oh, please leave us a review on Amazon or Goodreads. 

Mai Ling Chan 01:32 

And the connection to Carol's Goodbye Orchid series, James, is that one of the characters is Asian, and it was very interesting to hear a little of the intersectionality of the Asian culture and the disability perspective in this story. 

James Berges 01:45 

Yeah, I love that, like, this story is a fictional story, right? And in your book, you have real nonfiction stories and I think both can be powerful. But there's something about fiction, I remember learning in grad school, Mai, about how even with autistic individuals, I think there were some studies about reading fiction narratives sparked more empathy than reading nonfiction. 

James Berges 02:06 

And I love this quote that, art is the lie that exposes the truth. It's a little philosophical, but I think that these fictional stories, when done well, like Goodbye Orchid, it can expand your empathy more than just hearing someone's actual story because it lets you put yourself in that person's shoes. 

James Berges 02:27 

So I love that you're both storytellers. 

Mai Ling Chan 02:30 

I love that and I really think our listener is going to enjoy the series. There's obviously a couple of books and it takes the characters through that and I really enjoyed this. 

James Berges 02:40 

Also, Carol talks about the power of marketing, and marketing gets a bad rap sometimes, but what we're doing right now is, in a way, marketing. Everything is marketing. Storytelling is marketing. I think oftentimes we think about marketing as the madmen and the ad agency in the fifties and sixties selling cigarettes to people who don't want them, but marketing can also be just how you tell the story of the impact you're making and finding the resonance that was already there in people and bringing it out in them and solving their problems, really. 

James Berges 03:16 

So, Carol also talks about how she markets her book, and you'll learn some things there, and so for anyone who's interested in either storytelling or marketing a book or just starting a movement through storytelling, this episode is for you. 

Mai Ling Chan 03:32 

Excellent. And speaking of stories, if you want to hear more amazing stories from our guests, please share this episode and help us reach more listeners. 

James Berges 03:40 

Yes, let's get to this interview with Carol Vanden Hendt. 

Mai Ling Chan 03:49 

Okay. Well, we have another amazing guest here for February, and I'm excited because this was a very strategic interview. Carol and I met a while back through an interesting way of marketing her book. 

Mai Ling Chan 04:01 

So I want to welcome Carol Van de Hinde to the show. Welcome. It's wonderful to be here. 

Carol Van Den Hende 04:06 

Thanks so much for having me. 

Mai Ling Chan 04:07 

Thank you, Carol. I am so excited because I can tell you that your book marketing worked. And maybe we should talk a little bit about that and your authorship, and then we'll get into why we think you're so great for the show. 

Carol Van Den Hende 04:23 

Wonderful. It is lovely to be on your show as an author. My third novel just came out, which ends the trilogy that brought us together. And absolutely the marketing is important to me because I think the message in the series is really one of hope and optimism and inspiration. 

Carol Van Den Hende 04:43 

And so would love to reach more people with that message because I think the world could use a bit of empathy and hope and optimism. And so I'm so glad that through IBPA, the Independent Book Publishers Association, you and I had met. 

Mai Ling Chan 04:58 

Excellent. Yes. For our listener, there are so many ways to get your book out there. I really want to applaud Carol for going this very interesting way of reaching out to people who are in the community of, I would say, disability interests, disability advocacy, and offering a digital version for free, which was very kind. 

Mai Ling Chan 05:16 

I'm sure it was strategic, Carol, but it at least got on my radar. Then I was like, oh my gosh, this is perfect. She's wonderful, and I would love to talk with her about having her on the show. When people say, do you make money on books? 

Mai Ling Chan 05:29 

It's not like you're going to be a millionaire, for most of us. We're not all the Harry Potter writer, but it opens the doors to other things. Do you agree, Carol? 

Carol Van Den Hende 05:37 

I do. And you know, there are different ways of measuring success for ourselves as authors. It is interesting to look at sales numbers for sure. And I love when my books reach more readers because of the mission and the purpose behind them. 

Carol Van Den Hende 05:50 

However, it also can be good just to measure success by how we're touching people, how we are changing lives, changing minds. And I get readers who both either have had medical challenges and been through disability and feel very seen on the pages of the Goodbye Orchid series. 

Carol Van Den Hende 06:10 

Or I have many readers who've not been through that experience personally themselves. And they say by reading the stories, going through what the main characters Phoenix and Orchid go through, that it deepens their empathy for people with disabilities. 

Carol Van Den Hende 06:25 

And both of those outcomes are incredibly touching. And I count those as success. 

Mai Ling Chan 06:33 

Exactly. I love that. So I want to take a step back and just focus on you a little bit. How did you get involved in writing for this specific genre and community? 

Carol Van Den Hende 06:41 

For me, it started when I realized that I was mom to a child with special needs. And that sent me on a journey to really figure out how I could best support him. And as I was trying to figure out how I could support myself as well, emotionally through that, I found that writing became a place of solace. 

Carol Van Den Hende 07:02 

And I initially thought I was writing for myself until I joined a writing community and was able to really move the authors that I was working with. In fact, the writing community I joined, we would meet in person every other week around Mary Lee's kitchen table, and we would read our work aloud to each other. 

Carol Van Den Hende 07:23 

When I read passages from Goodbye Orchid in which Phoenix suffers a life -changing accident, he wakes from the accident in the hospital, sees what's happened to himself, I brought that table of writers to tears. 

Carol Van Den Hende 07:37 

And it made me think that this work is so powerful and really has the potential to touch others' hearts. And it becomes not just a place for me to find solace for myself, but actually can move and help other people. 

Mai Ling Chan 07:53 

Excellent. I love that. I don't want to give away the story obviously in its entirety, but I am a speech -language pathologist and I've been involved in rehab. I think the area that affected me the most is long -term rehab because you get to stay with a client for two to three months. 

Mai Ling Chan 08:09 

What I loved is that you kind of dribbled out Phoenix's story of slowly being willing to share what his rehab experience was and the real genuine rawness of it. I felt like that you really did a great job of obviously capturing that. 

Mai Ling Chan 08:26 

I'm guessing that you worked with—I feel like I read that, right? That you worked with people to assist. Yes, and now I'm remembering it's in the book to help you with that perspective and point of view. 

Carol Van Den Hende 08:37 

That's so important, especially when it's an experience that I haven't had personally. Because my writing comes from a deep place of respect, for respect for people with disabilities, I wanted to be able to really show their experiences authentically. 

Carol Van Den Hende 08:53 

And so for me, it was important to both have sensitivity readers, people who've had that lived experience, be able to give me feedback and to be very open to that feedback and really listen to the feedback. 

Carol Van Den Hende 09:05 

As well, I worked specifically with combat wounded veterans. I often say the series was inspired in many ways by wounded veterans because as I was going through a difficult time with my son with special needs, I found that the stories of combat wounded veterans really touched me. 

Carol Van Den Hende 09:23 

The ways in which they strove and they really demonstrated strength and resilience to get back to good gave me the feeling of hope and gave me strength and resilience. And I wanted to reflect that on the pages of the Goodbye Orchids series. 

Carol Van Den Hende 09:40 

And so amazing Purple Heart decorated veterans like Sergeant Noah Galloway. I don't know if you've ever watched Dancing with the Stars, but he was a contestant on one of the seasons of Dancing with the Stars competing against able -bodied dancers, even though when he fought in Iraq, an improvised explosive device had exploded his Humvee, and he woke in the hospital to find he had lost his left arm and his left leg and that his life would never be the same again. 

Carol Van Den Hende 10:11 

He found his way through fitness to really improving his own life and finding this really strong sense of will to change, to grow, to live life very fully. And in that Dancing with the Stars season, he came in as a third -place finalist and moved people with his beauty of his dance, despite what he was missing. 

Carol Van Den Hende 10:33 

And so someone like that helped me with the books and have loved the series. In fact, the book you read, he endorsed that book and said that an always orchid really emanates the strength of the human spirit. 

Carol Van Den Hende 10:48 

I was so touched by that statement of his because he is really the embodiment of the strength of the human spirit. 

Mai Ling Chan 10:55 

That's beautiful Carol. I love that. And you also were able to capture just the the I keep using the word rawness but the transparency of a person's ego and pride as they move into a new relationship. 

Mai Ling Chan 11:07 

And yes, you know, he had a relationship with this with orchid prior, but now like opening up coming back as a new physical appearance right and touching on sexual encounters, and there is a whole new community where people with disabilities, whether they were acquired over life or they were born with it, that they can come together and speak openly about relationships and sexual encounters and, you know, relationships, that's all part of it. 

Mai Ling Chan 11:35 

And then there's the intersectionality of transgender and gay and, you know, all of that. And it's so important that we don't close our eyes and ears to it and saying, oh, no, no, no, I don't want to hear that. 

Mai Ling Chan 11:45 

Or, you know, that's not real. But you did such a beautiful job of bringing the reader into that very, very intimate space. Carol, I just wanted to let you know that I felt that, you know, it was like you did a very gentle way of introducing the reader, you know, because there's so many ways to kind of open the doors on that exact experience. 

Carol Van Den Hende 12:07 

Thank you so much. Those words mean a lot to me. I'm really glad because I wanted to do this, you know, community really justice, because there are many things that people who are in Phoenix's position would go through and relationships is certainly one. 

Carol Van Den Hende 12:26 

And I think the relationship with Orchid really showed how Phoenix grew in terms of his own understanding of himself. And that ultimately, although he worried that because of Orchid's background, having lost her parents at a young age, that perhaps she might be extra sensitive to his injuries after his accident when he saved a man's life, that actually the mindset shift that was needed was in himself. 

Carol Van Den Hende 12:53 

That he needed to find a way to really accept and forgive himself and have a great deal of empathy for himself. And that's the journey that he takes in this series. 

Mai Ling Chan 13:06 

Excellent, excellent. Again, it's so hard not to give away too much of the story. I also loved your connection to accessibility and inclusive design. You did an amazing job of weaving that into real life experiences. 

Mai Ling Chan 13:20 

I'm doing a lot of presentations now and talking about how everybody is anti -woke. You know, nobody wants to hear, you're doing this wrong and this is how you need to do it. But what I loved is that how you put that in there just so naturally. 

Mai Ling Chan 13:32 

Like, oh, of course he had adjustments in his house, you know, and Orchid didn't notice it until she did notice it and it was subtle. But it was necessary, right? And then thinking about travel. Oh, you can come with me to China. 

Mai Ling Chan 13:44 

Yeah, I can come with you to China. And the reader is thinking all of these typical issues, you know, like how am I going to leave my job? How am I going to leave my family? And you weaved in there at the just the most perfect time as, well, I've been thinking about the trip and how, you know, how I have to prepare myself for the trip and how my body is going to handle that and my wheelchair elephant in the room, you know, but just a beautiful, beautiful way of bringing the reader along because I would say that, you know, most of your readers are going to be people who don't have a direct relationship to disability or such an intimate relationship. 

Mai Ling Chan 14:17 

So as somebody who's very involved in advocacy for accessibility and inclusive design, I just really if I could give you an award on that, I would big gold star on what a great job you did of bringing in reality, just bringing in reality, you know, to what this what these things meant to Phoenix. 

Carol Van Den Hende 14:36 

Thank you for those incredibly kind words. And I do think you're right that many readers who read the Goodbye Orchids series don't have disabilities themselves. And I love that the work, the writing, can be eye -opening for them. 

Carol Van Den Hende 14:49 

That they see then the importance of accessibility accommodations in Phoenix's apartment building. He lives in Manhattan, for instance. His entrance way has several steps. And there is no ramp. This is based on a real building in New York. 

Carol Van Den Hende 15:05 

And so, therefore, when he takes the elevator, he had to take it all the way down to the basement level, to the parking garage level, to even be able to get out of his apartment in his wheelchair. And I think that's a very real experience. 

Carol Van Den Hende 15:18 

And I think it's important to highlight that for others so that they understand the importance of the ADA that we have. Incredible legislation. And the more that we can adhere to that, I think the more it's good for everyone. 

Mai Ling Chan 15:36 

If you're like me, you can't get enough of books, podcasts, blogs, and other ways to find out how to create, grow, and scale. That's why I brought together 43 disability -focused leaders to give you more of what you're looking for. 

Mai Ling Chan 15:48 

You will hear their stories in three best -selling books, which focus on general offerings, augmentative and alternative communication, and speech -language pathology. I invite you to search for Becoming an Exceptional Leader on Amazon, so you can learn intimate start -up pearls of wisdom and keep growing your brilliant idea. 

Mai Ling Chan 16:08 

Now, let's get back to our amazing interview. I also liked how you brought in the very little -known world of prosthesis. It's getting bigger, and obviously, technology is becoming more amazing. We are doing the show right now in February of 2024, and the new Echo series just came out, which is incredible. 

Mai Ling Chan 16:28 

It's through Marvel. She is hearing—I believe she is deaf, fully deaf—and she has a prosthesis on the right leg. She is a kick -ass woman. Oh my gosh, she's just amazing. That's a great example. Even my mind, because I have experience, I'm like, wow, it's incredible the flexibility and all the things that she can do, and she does a lot of her own stunts, so it's incredible. 

Mai Ling Chan 16:53 

The behind -the -scenes that you actually raise the curtain on is incredible, Carol, when you talk about him having to deal with a long day with having it on or not being able to use it now and having to transition back to the wheelchair and what that might mean for him. 

Mai Ling Chan 17:09 

Also, for his friends, I'm getting a little excited here, but that was fantastic on all of these people who didn't know that he connects with. Yeah, I can see you on that. That was fantastic. So, nobody wants to hear these parts. 

Mai Ling Chan 17:21 

It's so hard, Carol, and you did such a great way of introducing them. 

Carol Van Den Hende 17:26 

There's so much research behind it and, of course, respect for the experiences of people who are using prostheses. I think that people don't understand. Sometimes people who haven't had first -hand experience think, oh, of course, it's such a challenge when you lose a limb, but you can just get a prosthetic device. 

Carol Van Den Hende 17:44 

But it's not that simple. There are complications or complications physically with how the limb changes over time. And also, I bring up the issue around insurance. The fact that insurance might consider just an everyday leg prosthetic, for instance, that Phoenix needs to be what's medically necessary. 

Carol Van Den Hende 18:03 

But the extra prostheses, like for sports or other things that really would create good quality of life, are not always covered by insurance. And so that's another issue that the books really raise awareness for. 

Mai Ling Chan 18:18 

Excellent, and I do want to give her due credit. It's Alakwa Cox, she's an American actress and she is now the star of Echo with the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And she was in the Hawkeye series and now she's in Echo. 

Mai Ling Chan 18:31 

So congratulations to her. So as we're talking about celebrities, we all have a book inside of us. Apparently I had four, I say that funny. I didn't sit down and write a book and so I can't take the current credit that you have. 

Mai Ling Chan 18:45 

I am more of somebody who brings people together and helps people to share their stories through my anthologies, the Becoming an Exceptional Leader series. And before I get into why we're connected there, I wanted to ask you, how did you get involved in creating and independently publishing your own book? 

Mai Ling Chan 19:02 

Because I think everyone listening has a book inside of them and they would love to know. 

Carol Van Den Hende 19:06 

Yes. So the publishing journey can be take very many different forms. And if people are listening who want to write and publish a book, there are so many options available for all of us now. Of course, we can still go after traditional publishers. 

Carol Van Den Hende 19:19 

We can look at small presses and that's my debut novel came out from Kohler books. And then after that, I did create a publishing company to publish my next two. So Orchid Blooming and always Orchid came out from my publishing company, Azine Press. 

Carol Van Den Hende 19:36 

Those opportunities are available to everyone. Everyone can hire their own freelance editors, their own book cover designers and create their own works. Of course there are, you know, things to consider when it comes to distribution and promotion and marketing and publicity. 

Carol Van Den Hende 19:54 

You know, those things, if you do choose the indie publishing route will fall on the author publisher's shoulders. So certainly something to consider. But I think to encourage people to write is a wonderful gift. 

Carol Van Den Hende 20:08 

And even if people write for themselves, you know, I think it's maya Angelou who famously said, she writes to know what she thinks and for all of us to think more deeply about our really precious one lives and the impact, the positive impact we can make in this world is a gift for everyone. 

Mai Ling Chan 20:28 

Beautiful. Thank you so much. Okay. So the tie -in here is my book, Becoming an Exceptional API Leader, has launched in February, and that's Asian Pacific Islander. And for those of you who may not have seen the cover, Carol Van de Heen also has an American Asian background. 

Mai Ling Chan 20:46 

Can you tell us a little bit about your heritage? 

Carol Van Den Hende 20:48 

Yes, so I'm sitting here in New Jersey speaking with you, where I was born, and I was born to immigrant parents who came from Taiwan and Hong Kong. I'm Chinese American, and it's been such an interesting cultural journey for me. 

Carol Van Den Hende 21:05 

My main character orchid is half Asian, just like my twins are. And she also goes on a journey trying to feel closer to the memory of her mother, who's from China. I felt that when I had a two -year work assignment that I accepted to go to China, I lived in Beijing with my twins, my husband and I, and hadn't ever been to China until that experience. 

Carol Van Den Hende 21:27 

So interesting to feel like I was closer geographically to where my roots are, to learn Mandarin. Those were incredible experiences. And I think that all of us bring so many different aspects of ourselves, whether it's our multicultural backgrounds, our family histories, our experiences, our family's experiences, all of this creates this rich, rich fabric that we all have the opportunity to share with each other. 

Mai Ling Chan 21:58 

Excellent. We have more in common than I remembered. I'm from Jersey also. I've been displaced in Arizona desert now for like 25 years looking for my beach. But yes, I totally understand that. And I have been saying that during the last eight months where we've been putting the book together, I am more Chinese now than I've ever been. 

Mai Ling Chan 22:18 

But I always say, of course, I am American. I also don't say I'm Chinese American. I am American and I have Chinese cultural heritage. So that's kind of where the book came from. And when I interviewed Dr. 

Mai Ling Chan 22:30 

Lily Chang back in May for the Asian Pacific Islander Month to spotlight her on the podcast, we found that there would be great value in sharing the voices of people who bridge this interesting community of disability and Asian culture. 

Mai Ling Chan 22:46 

And I don't find it so much this book, and I don't know if it's on your radar, but talking about how the traditions in the deep Asian heritage of being quiet, not standing out, doing what you're told, collectivism, things like that, how that really hinders you in terms of your access to supports, in your personal judgments about disabilities, in your community's perspectives, things like that. 

Mai Ling Chan 23:14 

And so that's what we are trying to spotlight, or we are spotlighting in the book. And so I thank you, first of all, for taking a moment to take a look at our just short early release information and just wanted to see if you could share a little bit about your perspective on what you had seen within the book. 

Carol Van Den Hende 23:32 

I think it's such an important topic. And I applaud you for putting together this book. It is actually a very powerful intersection. When we think about Asian culture, everything you described, and in addition, the importance of saving face. 

Carol Van Den Hende 23:48 

And when we overlay that with the disability experience, it can have these outcomes, such as people feeling ashamed of the disability and therefore having a difficult time grappling with it. So it is powerful to shine a light on those stories, to bring those so that people can feel like they're not alone, and to hear different perspectives, and to hear these very inspiring people overcome challenges, how they've seen the situation, how they've approached it from their own personal standpoint. 

Carol Van Den Hende 24:24 

And I love the way each chapter is organized. It's the very first -hand personal story. But then in addition, what does it mean to the reader? What are the takeaways? What are the actions that people can take? 

Carol Van Den Hende 24:38 

So that it becomes really both a very touching first -hand account, as well as something quite actionable and pragmatic and useful for people who are going through these experiences. 

Mai Ling Chan 24:53 

Thank you, Carol. I appreciate that. And I recall that Orchid introduces Phoenix to her mom, and I could feel this defensiveness coming up inside of me. And there wasn't anything outwardly blatant or flagrant about it, but I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think her mom refers to a previous boyfriend, but in a very light way. 

Mai Ling Chan 25:14 

Doesn't she say something like, what about this other guy? What happened to him? 

Carol Van Den Hende 25:17 

Yeah, you know, I really thought about the Asian overlay with the disability theme in Always Orchid, and there's actually an area that it plays out even more strongly. The scene that you're talking about in which the aunt who raised her comes to visit them while they're in China on assignment in Beijing, she mistakes. 

Carol Van Den Hende 25:40 

There's two gentlemen there, and she's hopeful that the gentleman who is Chinese by ancestry is her boyfriend, and then realizes that Phoenix, who was not Chinese by ancestry, is her boyfriend. So she actually comments about their cultural background and doesn't explicitly comment on his disability. 

Carol Van Den Hende 25:58 

And I made that choice quite consciously because I didn't, you know, I think oftentimes people say their disability doesn't define them. I think that's a very, you know, individual choice that can be made. 

Carol Van Den Hende 26:11 

And I wanted to, you know, have the aunt notice something else, that it's not just only about the disability. However, there was an aspect I did bring up because the two of them travel from New York where they were living to Beijing for her assignment. 

Carol Van Den Hende 26:29 

The superstitions that might live in Chinese culture can still be either under the surface or can be, you know, more explicit, where disability at times can be considered bad karma. There can be people who look down upon that. 

Carol Van Den Hende 26:47 

And so that does play out when Phoenix is in public places, when he goes to the restaurant, for instance, and he has lunch, and he feels that people are staring at him, you know, and I do highlight that. 

Carol Van Den Hende 26:59 

I think part of what readers have told me they've gotten out of the books is a little more conscientiousness on their own parts on how they might speak with or behave around people with disabilities, to just see them as people and simply speak to them as they would speak to other people, and to not have the conversation only be about the disability. 

Carol Van Den Hende 27:21 

And so I do close out in gentle ways, as you spoke about in the beginning of the interview, that, you know, the way in which I really talk about these issues is with great respect and gentleness. 

Mai Ling Chan 27:36 

Beautiful. And then, again, I cannot give away what happens at the end of the book, but I just want to say you did an amazing job of really bringing the characters along and helping them to see their place in the whole disability advocacy space. 

Mai Ling Chan 27:50 

And I wasn't expecting that, honestly. You know, I was thinking, okay, true love, end of the story, they're going to get married and, you know, this is the end of it. And I was like, ooh, Carol, I'm so proud of you. 

Mai Ling Chan 27:59 

And so it was just wonderful. So thank you for that. And I'm encouraging everyone, get the book, always orchid. This one is goodbye. 

Carol Van Den Hende 28:07 

Orchid, correct? There's an entire series. So, chronologically, Orchid Blooming is the first book in the series. The second book in the series is Goodbye Orchid. The one you read is the third and finale, Always Orchid. 

Carol Van Den Hende 28:19 

Each of them is written as standalone. So, just like you read Always Orchid and were able to understand the backstory and didn't need to read all three to understand the story, that's absolutely the case for any three of these books. 

Carol Van Den Hende 28:32 

you 

Mai Ling Chan 28:32 

Excellent. Yes, beautiful job. Well, Carol, thank you so much for taking the time to put this book together and this whole series. I think it's an incredible offering. Thank you for being here today with us. 

Mai Ling Chan 28:43 

And how can we continue to support you and be involved? 

Carol Van Den Hende 28:47 

I would love for readers to connect with me. There are many ways to find me online. I'm on social media as well. They can sign up for my newsletter for a little bit of inspiration and to get to know me better at carolvantonjenda .com slash contact. 

Carol Van Den Hende 29:03 

And when they're there, they might see that these books have won at this point, 40 awards now. And the ones I am most proud of are the Royal Dragonfly Award for disability awareness. And also that springboard consulting named me disability hero of the year for the work on this series. 

Carol Van Den Hende 29:22 

Congratulations. Thank you. That's incredible. Thank you. And congratulations to you on your fourth book and for shining a light on such important topics and bringing together really authentic and wonderful leaders. 

Mai Ling Chan 29:37 

Thank you so much, Carol. Together, we will raise awareness and understanding. 

Carol Van Den Hende 29:41 

Yes, let's do that. 

Mai Ling Chan 29:43 

Wonderful. 

Speaker 4 30:00 

And if you want exclusive tips on becoming an exceptional leader, deliver straight to your inbox, just go to ExceptionalLeaders .com and sign up for our mailing list. Thanks for listening.